The danger of sharing my beliefs

Wow – I didn’t realize how much energy I would stir up with my last blog post about the “invisible forces” that stopped us being in Tokyo when the earthquake hit. Have you been thinking about what you believe?

I promised that in my next (this) article I’d share my own beliefs on the subject. But I have to admit I’ve had a huge resistance. There’s a genuine fear holding me back. Not a fear for my own sake, but for the work.

Before I get onto the topic of what I believe, I’d like to open a discussion with you about spiritual beliefs generally, my past mistakes, and the risks for me of being too clear about what I think.

As I’ve confessed in recent articles, my own spiritual beliefs are evolving rapidly as I learn and grow. When I look back a mere 3 years ago to what I was teaching (as a licensed TH teacher), it amazes me how strongly I have abandoned every single spiritual belief I held back then. It also embarrasses me somewhat how I stood in front of classes of intelligent people and confidently told them “this is The Truth.” These memories embarrass me on several levels which I don’t need to spell out. I’ve learned and grown and changed a lot in the last few years, and a good indication of this is the fact that pretty much every spiritual belief I have has changed. This is great, but also reminds me how quickly we grow -who knows what I’ll believe in another 3 years? That means I had better not try to pretend to know the “Truth.”

What I learned from past mistakes

OK so here’s some of what I got from past mistakes:

Don’t preach.
Seriously, don’t preach – no one’s beliefs should be based on other people’s beliefs.
Don’t share your beliefs unless relevant, necessary even, and only then in context.
Don’t ever try to convert people or persuade them of the truth of your beliefs – your truth is just that, YOUR truth.
Find a way of teaching healing and personal development work that doesn’t rely on any specific spiritual belief or system. Make “self-healing” available to everyone from the atheist to the fundamentalist.”

Well it’s been 3 years since my “re-awakening” and I honestly think I’ve done a really good job of biting my lip and keeping my beliefs to myself. Those of you who have taken an RPT course with me know that I am passionate about my beliefs but keep very quiet about them.

What am I afraid of?

I think that my biggest fear in sharing my spiritual beliefs is the knowledge that, pretty much by definition, 99.9999% of the world’s population will disagree with me. Atheists will say I believe in woo-woo. Every follower of religion will say I’m a blasphemer. New Agers will resent me because, well they always just seem to! (Some people just don’t like feeling challenged or threatened!)

But mostly my fear is this – I know that our method, RPT, works brilliantly and doesn’t require any belief system. So my fear is that people will reject a wonderful tool because they disagree with the spiritual beliefs of its creator.

Of course that’s silly – you don’t refuse to see your doctor because of her religion, and you don’t ignore your school or university lecturers because of their political or spiritual views. The only thing that’s different is because RPT, as a healing and personal development technique, is in the spiritual/ New Age marketplace. And in that marketplace, it’s normally and accepted to judge the technique by its creator’s beliefs. It’s not right, but it happens.

I’ve been mulling over this today, and in fact procrastinated publishing this post, until I found a compromise. And my compromise is this – I will, on this blog, share my very personal and unique spiritual beliefs. And when I do, I will always start with the disclaimer: The following views are the personal opinion of one of the co-founders of RPT but do not represent the RPT technique. These views have no bearing on how effective RPT is for you. The other co-founders of RPT have quite different beliefs.

There, that should cover it.

And now, we seem to have filled up today’s blog without me actually having to share any of my beliefs! Clever, hey. That’s OK we have more than enough to talk about for today and I can work on a more detailed post about my beliefs for Wednesday.

What are your thoughts?

Here are some questions I’d love to get your opinion on:

would you judge a personal development / healing technique by the personal spiritual beliefs of the founder? Why / Why not?
would your opinion of me change if you found out that your spiritual beliefs and mine are totally inconsistent (e.g. you believe in angels and fairies and I have strong views about such things that challenge you considerably)?
is my disclaimer necessary (not for you, I realize, but for those unfamiliar with RPT)?
how comfortable are you sharing your spiritual beliefs (or non-beliefs)? For instance with friends, at work, and among those you know will disagree?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on these subjects. Remember that leaving a comment is your “payment” for any value you get from this site. Even better is to leave a link back to this page from your own blog/website or any other site you comment on.

Blessings
Simon

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41 Comments

41 Responses

Reply

Renee from Melbourne
March 14, 2011 at 10:41 pm

Hello Simon, wow this is fun!
I would love to give my opinion, do with it what you please ☺
1. The people that we attract into our lives show us who we are. If you judge others you are judging a part of yourself. If I attract a teacher who walks their talk, is in truth, compassion and integrity, I am a happy girl.
2. I am pretty sure that our spiritual beliefs have always been quite inconsistent. Both of us are changing what we think and feel towards certain things – I am constantly changing and evolving. I still love you!
3. I think the distinction is quite important – where the technique starts and ends. It is a bit lawyerly wordy though. lol
4. As I go along I am more open to sharing my spiritual beliefs. I will only ever comment if I am invited to and the time and space is appropriate. Generally, I find only religions/belief systems that are based in fear and/or ego will have any issues with my own brand of spirituality.
Love to you xxx

[Reply]
Simon Rose Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 9:10 pm
hey ‘Nee, great to have you visiting us here. I changed your username to “Renee from Melbourne” because there’s another Renee (from Byron Bay) who comments here often. Didn’t want to confuse people.

Yep I agree with your comments. And most of all, you and I have happily disagreed about lots of stuff for years without it ever being a problem. Even if I usually laugh at crystal healing and hand-waving energy tricks, you know that I’ve always open to you practicing those methods on me and it usually helps too!

blessings,
Simon

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Barbara Reply:
March 16th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
I will only ever comment if I am invited to and the time and space is appropriate.

I agree here. Religion and one’s belief systems can be a very personal thing. I find I take a bit of a religion and put it all together to form my own ideas.

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Shane Marsh
March 14, 2011 at 10:44 pm

>Wow – I didn’t realize how much energy I would stir up with my last blog post

You wanted more comments and interaction – be careful what you wish for…

Don’t have time respond fully atm – just thought I’d jump in as I had another one of those “hmmm, I think Simon just posted something new” moments. I’ll come back tomorrow.

Cheers

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Vairi M-R
March 15, 2011 at 12:28 pm

Hello Simon!

Renee summed up everything I had thought of to respond to your questions quite nicely. I resonate with this and have recently been having a considerable inner whirlpool on this topic. Gratitude for this answer and discussion. My partner is atheist and a scientist. He considers what we believe in to be stuff of the loon. Speaking one’s truth quietly sounds like a great solution for now….. I am interested to learn more.

IL&G xoxo

[Reply]
Simon Rose Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
hi Vairi and welcome to the blog.

Thanks for your thoughts. I think that the ideal probably involves explaining our spirituality in a language that people like your husbane can relate to and understand. So much of spirituality is either (a) nonsense or (b) on to something good but expressed in language that is very unscientific. If we can refine and clarify our beliefs, I don’t think that they have to “stuff of the loon!” I know my beliefs aren’t loony anyway!

Out of interest (to you and all new visitors), how did you find our blog?

thanks
Simon

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Renee from Melbourne
March 15, 2011 at 9:34 pm

The more Renees the better!
You are a beautiful man x

[Reply]
Simon Rose Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
better let people know you’re my wife’s best mate, else they could get a bit worried about that one.

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Barbara
March 15, 2011 at 10:03 pm

Hello Simon, I have often thought about ‘beliefs’ and other people’s beliefs. In fact I only spoke to my husband about it yesterday. A while back Carol Tuttle (energy healer, USA) said she was out running when a dog attacked her. She said she would explain why she had ‘attracted’ this energy when she practices possitive thinking all day long. I never did get to see her email though. Recently I was feeling really good, I was in a happy place in every sense of the word. I took my dog out and from nowhere 2 dogs attacked her. We ended up at the vet. It was a horrible experience. I wondered how and why I had attracted this energy when I felt so good on leaving the house. Then I saw your blog about ‘shit happens’ and that seemed to answer the question. But then I thought Carol Tuttle’s beliefs are her beliefs and yours are yours and along the way I have thought Vianna’s were hers. Indeed Vianna teaches about beliefs but then she believes in her beliefs! So where does this leave us? I will say I felt more relaxed around the belief that ‘shit happens’ and I think in the books Conversations With God, God replies that sometimes life ‘just is’ – but even that is a condradiction as it is God speaking and not ‘us’, ‘me’, ‘our higher self.’ So where is the answer? On similar lines to your blog, as well. My sister took her own daughter to an animal rescue centre and the daughter said, ‘please do not impose your beliefs and insecurities about animals on me.’ So maybe it is all about us having our own beliefs and sticking to them or even changing them when we think it is appropriate. When you think about your life and how you were brought up and your schooling we have built our own lives on other people’s belief systems – hopefully we will all find out the truth in the end.

[Reply]
Simon Rose Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 10:23 pm
Hi Carol, thanks for sharing your wisdom here. I’ve covered some of this in my next article on what I believe – it will publish tomorrow (got to give people a chance to comment here first).

I do believe in the law of attraction but as I’ve said before (and in the next article), life is so incredibly complex, there are so many unconscious feelings and vibrations, that it’s almost impossible to apply the law of attraction in practice. Carol Tuttle is probably right in principle – if you believe in LOA then she attracted the attack. However she is unlikely to ever figure out why. Her best chance would be to apply the triune brain theory like we do in class because we attract most strongly from gut instincts (R-complex or reptilian brain). We attract only very weakly from our belief systems (human brain or neo-cortex) so that’s why changing beliefs hardly changes your life at all.

> Indeed Vianna teaches about beliefs but then she believes in her beliefs!
Some other comments – if Vianna actually believed her own “beliefs” she would not be in the legal mess she is in (being successfully sued for hundreds of thousands of dollars for fraud and deception. But that’s another story.

> I think in the books Conversations With God, God replies that sometimes life ‘just is’

a better way of putting it would be Neale’s spiritual self replies.

I respect Neale a lot for his growth and evolution. In his early books (CWG) he suggests God is separate to himself, an extra voice. But as he grows and evolves, the “God” personality merges with the “Neale” personality, so that his most recent books are not a conversation any more, just a stream of consciousness. That’s brilliant. In fact that’s what we aim for in RPT with the coherence work, a little more quickly.

blessings
Simon

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Barbara
March 15, 2011 at 10:17 pm

would you judge a personal development / healing technique by the personal spiritual beliefs of the founder? Why / Why not?
A – I would probably be more attracted to the technique or feel more comfortable with it if I felt the person giving it were ‘spiritual’. And I might be ‘very interested’ if someone said they were, say, a Muslim and offering a healing technique. You can then see things from another person’s perspective.
would your opinion of me change if you found out that your spiritual beliefs and mine are totally inconsistent (e.g. you believe in angels and fairies and I have strong views about such things that challenge you considerably)?
A – they are – and I have not changed my opinion. I reckon people can see where you are coming from by looking at you or by looking at what you write. I feel that ‘honesty’ plays an important part here.
is my disclaimer necessary (not for you, I realize, but for those unfamiliar with RPT)?
A – it is a good idea
how comfortable are you sharing your spiritual beliefs (or non-beliefs)? For instance with friends, at work, and among those you know will disagree?
A – I am happy to tell people that I am a spiritualist and Buddhist but would not argue about it. I feel sad about people who are caught up in traditions that tell them they are possessed and must give money so as to be un-possessed – and other people who I can see are brain-washed by their religions. I will think of a way of letting them know that I feel their idea of religion is wrong or find words to let them know they are being conned – but then I am putting my beliefs on them. I guess a good idea is to say something to them to get them to question their own beliefs and the beliefs of those teaching that religion.

[Reply]
Simon Rose Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 10:31 pm
thanks, wise words

On the last point, having grown up in a family of fundamentalists and having been sent to a fundamentalist primary school, I have never found any success in trying to get someone to question their own beliefs. For me it has always ended up in being judged and ostracized by my broader family (meaning religious uncles, cousins etc). The belief in religion requires faith, and this is usually inconsistent with logic. When you try to show people logic, their faith is threatened and they get really angry.

In a similar vein, when I made logical comments about how the “Creator” in TH work cannot actually be the “Creator”, people got incredibly angry. I mean they HATE me for pointing it out. I was really amazed as I was just trying to help. But my dear friend Val Moore pointed out that I was attacking people’s God, and people throughout history have fought and died rather than question their beliefs about God – no matter how illogical.

Believe me I’ve learned. Compared to 2 years ago, I am a professional diplomat on this blog now.

Simon

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Mick Thackray
March 15, 2011 at 10:22 pm

Personally, i would not necessarily dispute the effectiveness of a healing method based on its founders beliefs IF the technique was proven to work. Everyone is at their own level of spiritual evolution and access to healing that works should be accessible to everyone at every stage of advancement. That being said however, i would most likely take up only the core elements of the healing technique and discard any and all of the teacher’s religious connotation from the system to more efficiently integrate it with my own path and spiritual view, unless of course the teacher’s views were in sync with my own.(very rare)

My opinion of you would change.. ..for the better. In my opinion being aligned with one polarity is as good/bad as being aligned with the other. Were I to find that your beliefs went beyond the concepts of duality i would be suitably impressed.

The disclaimer is probably necessary if only for the fact that, as you yourself state – your view’s do not represent the views of your co-founders and im sure RPT works just as well for them

As for sharing myself, I am not given to openly share what i believe unless asked. Even then i am quite doubtful that what i have to share would be understood entirely. I have yet to meet (personally) anyone that would understand and agree with my views. I am however quite comfortable sharing over the internet where i have a degree of anonymity. Even though my name is here, nobody here knows who i am, so there is a level of comfort in sharing my views (to a certain degree) on the internet

[Reply]
Simon Rose Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 10:34 pm
OK Mick, I’m intrigued. I think I speak for everyone reading the blog when I say “Please share more!”
I certainly can relate to that feeling that “no one understands my beliefs.” My I suggest you start a blog – it seems to be a good way to explore one’s beliefs and feelings.

About exploring beyond duality – all I can say is it’s a journey. I agree with you about the ideal or the destination. I know I am not there yet. And that’s OK. As far as our healing technique goes, we have had wonderful success in going past the duality of (for example) good and bad beliefs, “yes” and “no” muscle testing etc. The new RPT method works only with deep survival instincts (e.g. aloneness and isolation cause depression and separation but they are hardwired to survival). I like the fact that there’s no duality or judgment in this method. Just acknowledgment of “what’s so.”

Blessings
Simon

[Reply]
Mick Thackray Reply:
March 15th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
Im not sure exactly what you would like me to share. I’m starting to get the feeling though, that i may just have found someone who wouldnt think i’ve lost it if i revealed what i believed to be true….funny that

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Barbara
March 15, 2011 at 10:30 pm

Thank you Simon for your replies – re Vianna and Carol Tuttle – it makes sense! And has opened a doorway for me to think about and work on.

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Barbara
March 15, 2011 at 10:51 pm

re -religious beliefs – It is a bit like those people who drive at 100mph down the motorway and give you a filthy look because you are in ‘their bit of the road’.

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Dmitry Yeschenko
March 16, 2011 at 12:08 am

Hi Simon!
This post arose a bundle of different emotions inside me.
1. First of all – it’s great that you’ve started to speak about this topic.
2. Anyway there are some people who would like to judge you and your system even without any reason. Simply because they are. But it doesn’t mean anything (espesially if your system really helps people and gives them suspected results).

There’s one rule I’ve clearly understand on my own experience one year ago. There’s no such thing as Black PR. PR is PR without any additions. The more attantion you attract – the more popular you become and the more results you receive.
There’s also one conclusion that very useful if someone judges you or your work. – Listen them very carefully, for they merely always show you the way to next level. It means, that everybody who judges, reflects to you some of your shadow corners. And it’s really great ability to improve yourself.

So don’t be afraid of any kind of judgements. Better to hear them then to stay quiet. Also If you’re an openminded person – normal people always feel it and they will take you as you are (the same with your tech) without any mixture.

By the way, may be you need to clear some carge about this topic?

As for me – I judge technique only by results. Not by any other words.

3. My opinion about you and anybody else is independent from spiritual beliefs of that person. I prefer to look at heart and see what’s inside rather to judge based on some words which possibly misunderstood by both of us.

As to my own experience – I live in ortodox christian country where most of people think that buddhism is a kind of satanism. But it never hurt me that I’m former buddhist monk and still buddhist.

4. I don’t think that you need such disclaimer. Even more, while reading something like “The following views … do not represent the RPT technique.” Most of readers will get pretty opposite to what you meant. (Hope you know how frases with “No” inflict our mind”)
That’s normal that you wrote about it once. In this article. No more need.

5. I don’t feel any problem with sharing my spiritual beliefs with anyone, especially if he’d like to listen. I have no need to proove them or insist on them to somebody else. They are MY beliefs and I don’t feel any need in duplication of them. But if someone likes – they can use them for free.
I realize that my way of life and work are really connected with my beliefs. For I’ll never heal other people if I’ll think it bring them more problems then solutions. That’s my belief – “To help other people to be happy and to gain freedom from suffers”. But I do know that it’s impossible to make someone happy by ignoring his free will. So it depends on other’s desire will I help them or no.
If someone wants to use my help – I think it’s normal to allow him look inside me to understand do my inner feelings in harmony with his own or not. And I realize that they shouldn’t be the same. They simply should resonate somehow. Otherwice I think it’ll be quite impossible to work and get results.

[Reply]
Dmitry Yeschenko Reply:
March 16th, 2011 at 12:49 am
Little mistake correction: (espesially if your system really helps people and gives them EXpected results)

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Thomas Eriksson
March 16, 2011 at 12:59 am

Hi!

I believe that your being represents your beliefs. So even if you keep away from sharing it openly it will transmit radiate to all anyway. I realize that I am afraid that my beliefs will make me distant from the rest of the world. But I recently realized that when I choose to live by different beliefs I offer another option to all.

Who would Simon be if people did not choose RPT because of his beliefs? Is Simon responsible for others wellbeing and invested in their healing, responsible for their choice?

I guess what happens now is that whatever you do is based on you current belief anyway? How does beliefs change anyway?

If I say it does not matter at all if you share you beliefs or not because whatever beliefs you have does not matter anyway, because truth involves no beliefs. Thats one belief I have but I realize that to _know_ this is still ahead of a part of me anyway

Hugs

Thomas

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Shane Marsh
March 16, 2011 at 1:23 am

LOL!

The past few days have been really interesting for me. I agree that it’s a bad idea to preach or to try to convert people and yet that’s exactly what I did. Generally I’m very quiet about my beliefs and, in fact, even reluctant to go near the subject of spirituality with anyone unless I know they’re already on the same page or they bring up the subject and it’s clear they’re open to it. It doesn’t happen very often but, on occasions I’ve gotten myself into a debate about spirituality or the existence / non-existence of paranormal subjects and it never ends well. It’s not that I’m incapable of running well-constructed arguments or being unable to effectively counter any argument put forward by the other person. It’s just that nobody ever changes their view and both parties just end up digging their heels in, getting shitty with each other and convinced that the other person just “doesn’t get it”.

So what happened? Firstly I admit that I’m one of those people who don’t like to be challenged, although I don’t think that’s a trait that can only be attributed to “new-agers”. So called skeptics often suffer the same character flaw which usually spews forth in the form of sarcasm and patronising diatribes (sometimes it’s understandable but sometimes it’s just childish and off point). In any event, it is a flaw as it achieves nothing so I’ll have to go away and work on that. Sometimes being challenged is good as it opens up one’s eyes. The degree of the challenge affects the degree of the reaction and it’s not always going to be a positive reaction initially. I used to be agnostic but, through being challenged I’ve evolved away from that in my own way. It’s not an overnight thing though.

I think our exchange has benefited both of us. I usually manage being challenged ok and just accept that everyone has their own beliefs. However, every now and then my buttons get pressed. I actually thought I was mainly over that but our little exchange has highlighted that there’s still some work to do if I’m going to progress beyond it so thanks for being the catalyst for that The benefit to you is that it’s really highlighted that some people may prejudge RPT based on their perception of how it fits into their existing belief system.

In answer to your specific questions:

Q. Would you judge a personal development / healing technique by the personal spiritual beliefs of the founder? Why / Why not?
A. I can’t absolutely say yes or no – it depends on the technique and how belief-neutral it is. For example, I’ve studied NLP and that’s completely belief-neutral. And yet I’ve used it in conjunction with “out there” things like LOA. There are also many personal development teachers that focus on belief-neutral subjects (like goal-setting and motivation) that have no problem. The techniques are neutral but their applications are broad. On the other hand, even though I found the TH course valuable at the time, I found some parts of it too hokey for my liking and it conflicted with my belief that there’s no independent creator granting wishes. However, I just tried to skip over the the bits I couldn’t buy into and the use the bits I found helpful. However, as time went on I began to view VS as weirder and weirder and it eventually got to the point where I found it hard to take any of it seriously. Some things worked so I just figured that there must be some different explanation for why it worked other than the ones offered in the course. However the beliefs of that teacher have definitely turned me off and I wouldn’t be interested in anything else she has to offer now. There’d also be more chance of me sprouting wings and turning into a butterfly than attending the next Skeptics of Australia meeting.

Q. Would your opinion of me change if you found out that your spiritual beliefs and mine are totally inconsistent (e.g. you believe in angels and fairies and I have strong views about such things that challenge you considerably)?
A. I’m not going to BS you – the answer is “maybe”. The problem I have is that I still don’t know where you stand. You talk about having spiritual beliefs but then refer to yourself as an atheist. To me the two are mutually exclusive. If you use the word “spiritual” in the sense of “the human spirit” then you’re using the word in a different context to the context most people use when they talk about “spirituality”. If you have a belief that says there’s nothing more than what we can physically sense and measure then, by definition, there’s nothing spiritual about your belief system – you’re an atheist and have anti-spiritual beliefs. If you’re half and half then you’re pretty much the same as me. If you’re agnostic then that’s something entirely different – you have open beliefs.

Having said that, I wouldn’t dislike you. I have atheist and agnostic friends and I’m sure there are more things we would agree on than disagree on.

Q. is my disclaimer necessary (not for you, I realise, but for those unfamiliar with RPT)?
A. Maybe but then the fact that you need a disclaimer raises questions about why that’s necessary. I’m not sure that you can separate the beliefs of the teacher from the technique unless the technique is absolutely belief-neutral. The examples you used (doctors, lecturers etc.) involve things that are totally belief-neutral. Even most fairy-loving crystal-waver probably wouldn’t object if their economics professor was a complete atheist – it’s an irrelevant consideration as it’s a neutral subject.

Q. how comfortable are you sharing your spiritual beliefs (or non-beliefs)? For instance with friends, at work, and among those you know will disagree?
A. I’ve addressed that above.

At the danger of making this way too long, let me add the following:

Gary Craig (founder of EFT) came across the same problem. EFT is very successful and that’s partly due to the fact that a lot of the training is freely available and he kind of made it “open-source”. However, it would never have become the success it is unless it was demonstrably effective. He also targeted it as more of a psychological therapy and, as a result, it’s gained traction as part of the toolkit for clinical psychologists. However, despite the fact that a lot of psychologists have adopted it and the fact that some studies support its efficacy (as well as some that don’t), skeptics jump all over Gary’s theory for why it works and use that to disparage it. Gary effectively explains it by using the acupuncture model – it’s blocked energy and tapping on certain acupressure points in conjunction focusing on the issue releases the blocked energy. To most skeptics, that automatically puts it into the category of woowoo and so it’s dismissed. However, if Gary had chosen to be quiet about his theory for why it works and just focus on the technique itself then it may have been taken more seriously. The criticisms tend to not focus on the effectiveness of the technique but rather complain about the lack of falsifiability of the energy theory, the fact that it was promoted on the internet and that it spread by word of mouth (as opposed to the hallowed halls of some university or someone with qualifications in medicine or psychology). There are arguments that it’s just a distraction technique so the whole energy thing is bunk and therefore the whole technique is bunk.

RPT kind of falls into the same category. A lot of your teaching involves the theory of the mechanism behind why it works. There are a lot of rational explanations but there are also some aspects (like intuition and remote healing) that hard-nosed skeptics will be uncomfortable with and that may then colour there view of the overall technique. The irony is that you’re asking people who have no capacity to take leaps of faith to take a leap of faith. Then, on the other hand, the people who are more open to these sorts of things tend to have more “new-age” type belief systems but may feel that their beliefs are being invalidated by a lack of acknowledgment of other possible explanations. You end up alienating both camps.

Is there a happy half-way house? I don’t know the answer but usually the answer to these sort of conundrums is the middle ground and inclusiveness. The technique is already what it is and I don’ think you’re going to be able to get totally around the fact that some of it has new-age undertones. That, in and of itself is going to turn off the likes of Richard Dawkins and Mr Camels with Hammers but acknowledgment of multiple possible explanations would at least go some way to not alienating the other half of your potential audience. If you say “I have my theories but, at the end of the day I don’t know why it works for sure. All I know is that it does work” and then allow open discussion and avoid the slightest hint of patronising anyone then it’s probably the best you can do.

I need some sleep now – that was tiring

Cheers

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Shane Marsh
March 16, 2011 at 8:20 am

Update – I’ve had two insights. Firstly, reading Dimitry’s post about there being no such thing as bad publicity made a light bulb go off for me. Perhaps you could your beliefs as your unique selling point. I don’t know of too many “spiritual atheists” out there so at least you’d have something unique to distinguish yourself from all the other teachers out there. You might lose a few people but then you might gain a whole bunch of new people. In a way, that’s what attracted me to you in the first place. You were different from all the other “spiritual” teachers out there. Here was someone who was spiritual but also with a strong scientific bent and analytical. Also, you’re a lawyer and I also work in an area of the law (I’m not actually a lawyer but I know my ratio decidendis from my obiter dictas). Who does that remind me of. Hmmm….Me!

That brings me to my second insight. The reason you’ve pushed my buttons is because I unconsciously feel betrayed. Because I thought you and I were so similar in our approaches, you doing a 180 degree turn has thrown me. As I said in my first post, I’m normally ok with being challenged to some degree but I think you doing a 180 has threatened me at some level. Something I previously used to validate myself (wow, there are others like me out there like me and it is possible to successfully mix hard science, analytical thinking and spirituality) dissolved before my very eyes so unconsciously invalidating me (and all the shit that goes along with that). I don’t want to make it sound too melodramatic as it’s not a major thing but it did push my buttons and it sure highlights the folly of seeking validation (even unconsciously) from outside yourself – it’s a slippery slope!

Anyway my spiritual atheist friend, you may be on to something if you just follow your own intuition and don’t worry about what anyone else thinks. You are unique and that may lose you some people but gain you a whole bunch of new people. Just be who you are whilst at the same time allowing others to be who they are.

Cheers

[Reply]
Dmitry Yeschenko Reply:
March 16th, 2011 at 9:10 am
“Anyway my spiritual atheist friend, you may be on to something if you just follow your own intuition and don’t worry about what anyone else thinks. You are unique and that may lose you some people but gain you a whole bunch of new people. Just be who you are whilst at the same time allowing others to be who they are.”
Fully agree with it.

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Simon Rose Reply:
March 16th, 2011 at 5:27 pm
hi Shane
>(I’m not actually a lawyer but I know my ratio decidendis from my obiter dictas)

really – that puts you ahead of 95% of lawyers!

> I think you doing a 180 has threatened me at some level.

it’s funny because I’m not conscious that I’ve done a 180 at all. Not lately anyway. I mean obviously when I quit TH and started RPT it was a huge 180 because I said “I no longer believe things that I used to teach.” But since you’ve studied RPT in 2009 and 2010 with me, it’s hard for me to see what 180 degree turn you think I’ve taken since then?

I look forward to clearing it up and to many more interesting discussions with you.

Simon

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WendyB
March 16, 2011 at 3:28 pm

Although this is an intriguing topic, I wasn’t going to post because I’m way behind on sleep and have to leave town early in the morning. But…my brain wouldn’t let me sleep till I gave my 2 cents worth.

My question is, what does religion or spirituality have to do with healing in the first place??? Why do people make this an issue? Do you want to heal or not? That’s what they should be asking and answering for themselves. Peope should be searching for what WORKS regardless of who started it. When we place a value on someone elses beliefs, we devalue our selves and become sheep. Wanting to stay safe.

I had a lady call me about energy healing the other day but she didn’t want to talk to me unless I was the same religion as her. After a few minutes of finding out why that was important, she found out that it really was okay to talk to someone outside her flock.

People put too much enphasis where it doesn’t matter. Simon, at the end of the day I could careless what you belive about God, the unverse, angels, faries or any other topic. (don’t get me wrong I do like hearing what you say!) But what I REALLY care about it that you are creating an amazing modality that WORKS for me. I care about health, healing and living life to it’s fullest. If your brilliance can help me achive my goals, then your personal beliefs are just that…your belief. No judgement coming from me.

Do I share my personal beliefs? Only with people I am comfortable with or if they ask otherwise I don;t share because I sure don’t want to hear theirs unless I ask. I live in a place where other peoples views are shoved down my throat everday and I think it’s disrespectful and arrogant. There is space enough in this universe for all our beliefs. We just have to honor each other and get over our own egos and fears.

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Simon Rose Reply:
March 16th, 2011 at 3:44 pm
hi Wendy, all excellent points.

> My question is, what does religion or spirituality have to do with healing in the first place???
> Why do people make this an issue?

I think that the 2 things have been historically inseparable. Christianity throughout history was a source of healing, until only 100-200 years ago. You didn’t call a doctor you called a priest.

In India (which is a big inspiration for the Western New Age culture), there’s no doubt that the role of the guru was as much healer as teacher. A quick reading of books like Autobiography of a Yogi confirms this.

When I look to Asian healing techniques, like Reiki or QiGong, there is again an interest blend of religiosity and healing – ancient traditions that were taught by monks.

So much of what we call “healing” today is really the modernization of old religious teachings. Whether it’s prayer-based healing (ThetaHealing), or energy channeling type work (Reiki, qigong, Pranic, etc). All of these are spiritual healing techniques in one way or the other.

Even many modern counselling and personal development techniques are based on religeous ideas. The AA 12-step program is an obvious example. Less well known is that the modern phenomena of personal development is really a spiritual construct. Take for example one of the best known schools – Landmark Forum. They started as a spiritual school teaching enlightenment and went mainstream.

You asked what healing and spirituality have to do with each other? I ask you “when have they ever been separate?”

In fact, I think that our own work with Reference Point Therapy might be one of the only healing techniques in history that has attempted to remove the “invisible forces” and “magical thinking.”

I still think of RPT as spiritual, but then I think of a beautiful sunset as spiritual so it’s probably just my definition. There’s certainly no “magic man upstairs” or commanding the invisible friend (as in TH) nor any need to believe in anything.

I feel that we are playing a long game here, but over the course of the next decade it might be possible for us to shift “New Age” thinking out of the imaginary and into a science-based spirituality based on WHAT REALLY WORKS for people.

That’s what it’s all about isn’t it?

blessings
Simon

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WendyB Reply:
March 17th, 2011 at 5:04 am
“I feel that we are playing a long game here, but over the course of the next decade it might be possible for us to shift “New Age” thinking out of the imaginary and into a science-based spirituality based on WHAT REALLY WORKS for people.

That’s what it’s all about isn’t it?”

Yes! That would be amazing! No more excuses for being sick and stuck!!

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Maia Ishak
March 16, 2011 at 6:58 pm

My views:
1) would you judge a personal development / healing technique by the personal spiritual beliefs of the founder?
No I dont, I used to when I was young and hadnt travelled, but travellings and interactions with people outside my own country and very importantly perhaps life experience and wisdom, that has changed me. I learn from everyone , irregardless of religion, race and culture. there is always good things we can learn from other people’s knowledge. and when I dont agree, I prefer to listen and respect, rather than discriminate.

2) would your opinion of me change if you found out that your spiritual beliefs and mine are totally inconsistent (e.g. you believe in angels and fairies and I have strong views about such things that challenge you considerably)?
NO, I dont. explanation as in my answers to Question 1.

3) is my disclaimer necessary (not for you, I realize, but for those unfamiliar with RPT)?
perhaps necessary in case if you bump into people who are not open to the differences.

4) how comfortable are you sharing your spiritual beliefs (or non-beliefs)? For instance with friends, at work, and among those you know will disagree?
Depends. I share very openly to some people, but I am a bit cautios to some people. I am particularly cautious when I know the person is a conservative person from a highly collective society. So generally the width and breadth of my sharing depends on who the audience are…

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Jen Ervin
March 17, 2011 at 1:45 am

Hi Simon – I am new to RPT – I’m searching for a new healing modality, and just found RPT yesterday. My struggle with “investigating” a new healing modality is always trying to separate the science from the spiritual stuff, which is so often mixed in this realm. If the personal spiritual beliefs of a founder are different from my own, that wouldn’t dissuade me from using his technique/method unless the two were interwoven or if the actual method/technique taught had parts that flew in the face of what I spiritually believe, and/or if the method required me to believe something that’s in opposition to what I believe for it to work. I do appreicate your disclaimer, separating your personal spiritual beliefs from RPT, and your statement that it’s not directed by/dependent on any spiritual belief system, thereby making it “safe” for use by all, but in fact, there are a few things in the actual teachings (from what I’ve read on your forum and website) that actually do conflict with my belief system. It’s frustrating and very hard, because I SOOOOOOO want to learn this method. Maybe it’s just an issue of words used/meanings interpreted…who knows?

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Simon Rose Reply:
March 17th, 2011 at 11:23 am
Dear Jen

Thanks for posting this question on the blog.

I think this is a misunderstanding. Despite the disclaimer above, I feel that you have confused “Simon’s spiritual beliefs” with “how RPT works.”

This confusion is no doubt my fault. I am working on editing and rewriting the entire website for our re-launch next month. I will try to be more careful to separate Simon’s spirituality from “how RPT works” in future so that people don’t get confused. I am convinced that they are unrelated things.

You see, RPT is a tool, an application of new psychological theory. You don’t have to be a psychotherapist to use this tool because it’s so beautifully simple.

Let me ask a silly question – if a carpenter teaches you how to use a hammer, do you ask her what her religion is first? No, because it does not matter to the use of the tool. If a dressmaker shows you how to use a sewing machine, do you ask him about his faith? Of course not.

So why, my friend, is RPT any different?

RPT is the most powerful tool I have found for transforming our consciousness. It works by tracing conscious thought (in the frontal brain) into feelings (heart / limbic system) and into survival instincts (body mind / R-complex). We call this the Triune brain method.

You can heal many problems and diseases using this psychological framework without believing in God or calling out to Him/Her for help.

As a Christian you might (if you want) invoke or pray for Higher guidance before/during/after the RPT session. This is totally up to you. As as Taoist (more or less), I don’t expect prayer would make any difference to the outcome of an RPT session except if it makes you feel more comfortable or safe. If it does, then it’s a really good idea.

When you are sick, you go to the best doctor you can find. You don’t ask whether that doctor has the same belief in God that you do – because you bring your God with you. The doctor’s belief is irrelevant. Well it’s the same with RPT, which is just another healing tool, like a surgeon’s scalpel, that can be used by anyone with any belief.

Do whatever healing techniques work for you, whether it is medicine or a conversational therapy like RPT. Bring your spirituality with you –don’t leave it at the door. I cannot see why my beliefs are any more of a conflict than your doctor’s, your lawyer’s, your carpenter’s or your plumber’s beliefs. We all just offer a service.

Hope to meet you some day

Blessings
Simon

PS I would be grateful for your reply (either here or by email) to tell me where on the website I have suggested that following “my” spiritual model is necessary for the technique to work. I am very keen to avoid this misunderstanding in the future.

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Liz BArnard
March 18, 2011 at 2:45 am

Hi Simon
My thoughts on the following ?s

1. would you judge a personal development / healing technique by the personal spiritual beliefs of the founder? Why / Why not?

No I would not……..I feel you answered this question yourself in the para above “if a carpenter teaches you how to use a hammer, do you ask her what her religion is first? No, because it does not matter to the use of the tool. If a dressmaker shows you how to use a sewing machine, do you ask him about his faith? Of course not.

I believe in you and RPT, not your beliefs or your faith.

2. Would your opinion of me change if you found out that your spiritual beliefs and mine are totally inconsistent (e.g. you believe in angels and fairies and I have strong views about such things that challenge you considerably)?

I love a challenge, they assist me in developing my own beliefs about what FEELS right for me. My beliefs are continually changing and like you Simon they have changed considerably over the years and I hope they continue to do so as I evolve.

3. Is my disclaimer necessary (not for you, I realize, but for those unfamiliar with RPT)?

No I do not think a disclaimer is necessary, it may confuse those unfamiliar with RPT

4. How comfortable are you sharing your spiritual beliefs (or non-beliefs)? For instance with friends, at work, and among those you know will disagree?

I am not comfortable sharing my beliefs openly with friends etc apart from when asked. I find it extremly difficult to express in language what I feel and believe and I have doubts that people would want to listen to me anyway. Maybe I am afraid of being ridiculed or laughed at? I am just beginning to get a little confidence sharing on this blog and other internet sites as I do not have to actually face anyone and most people do not know me.
On this I think back to my time living in Japan, not being able to speak much of the language, no one knew me but I was able to communicate my beliefs and feelings with ease and love because that is what I received wherever I went…….I then returned to my shell when I got home to England.
I feel also that as I acknowledge my beliefs as continual change it may be wiser to keep them to myself and allow my beingness to do the talking for me.

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Maysan Marouf
March 23, 2011 at 7:30 am

Hi Simon,

Well we are constantly evolving, and in order to avoid so called “embarrassment” (in fact there is nothing to be embarrassed about), as you said not feverishly preaching your (Current) belief system and thinking of other people as “not ready” for your (current) wonderful ideas is a good idea

all the things like crystals and things are just crutches or bicycle training wheels for our intentions , i believe in their power but ultimately its how present we are that makes the real difference…

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Simon Rose Reply:
March 23rd, 2011 at 10:08 am
well said, thankyou.

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Sarah Caroline
March 23, 2011 at 9:05 am

Simon, I hope you adress again the issue of the Triune Brain, and in your model it is a 12 part brain if I understand correctly. I remember years ago reading in Patanjali’s Yoga Sutras that the psoas is a sensory organ (as opposed to simply a muscle group). The first time I experienced this for myself was profound, when I registered and integrated the perception of this area, I indeed experienced greater “coherence.” The completely coherent statement “you are healed” is love itself is it not. I take love mean being seen – perfectly – and your desciption in an introductory video for Manifesting the Miraculous is a very logical and evocative description of this true, healing, “seeing.”

Thanks for the refreshing forum on meta physical perception.

Love,
Sarah

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Simon Rose Reply:
March 23rd, 2011 at 10:18 am
hi Sarah
thanks for that. Yes I’m still doing more work on that model. We are getting great results on the Level 1 course bringing head-heart-gut together, and on the level 2 course adding to more important mind centers. On the Level 3 we cover 12 minds, some more critical than others. I don’t deal with them on the level of organs or muscle groups etc but you could – I know one of our teachers David was looking at the “kidney mind” or “liver mind” etc. I suppose there’s no upper limit to coherence.

I did not know that about the psoas. I have done the full Rolfing treatments and that was quite amazing for opening the psoas. For a while it changed how I work, but it’s been a few years and I have lapsed. I need a great body worker here in Vanuatu. (Body work is perhaps the modality that best complements RPT, along with naturopathy/diet).

Blessings
Simon

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Peter Taylor
March 24, 2011 at 11:16 pm

G’Day Simon,

No time no hear.

1) Would you judge a personal development / healing technique by the personal spiritual beliefs of the founder? Why / Why not?

Yes and no, it comes down to personal experience of finding out what it means to me in order for me to “learn” the difference between the beliefs I held and to decide for myself if I need to change them or not. In other words, it’s my choice to do this. Mind you I am referring to my own universe which I exist in and does this idea fit in it or not. Sometimes, I gonna have to try to see if it works.

2) would your opinion of me change if you found out that your spiritual beliefs and mine are totally inconsistent (e.g. you believe in angels and fairies and I have strong views about such things that challenge you considerably)?

I found out about it anyway since leaving TH, so that isn’t as important now as it was back then. Funny, I would have replied, “just can’t we get along…?”

3) is my disclaimer necessary (not for you, I realize, but for those unfamiliar with RPT)?

It helps to let the reader know WHICH thoughts belongs to whom!

Perhaps, it depends on the people who held their beliefs.

4) how comfortable are you sharing your spiritual beliefs (or non-beliefs)? For instance with friends, at work, and among those you know will disagree?

For starters, I’m kind of selective as some people doesn’t need a “lecture” if they disagree.

Cheers,
Peter.

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Simon Rose Reply:
March 28th, 2011 at 2:38 pm
hi Peter, sorry we missed each other when I was last in Melbourne. Thanks for keeping up on the blog.
blessings
Simon

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Mark Sawyer
March 28, 2011 at 2:21 pm

Hi Simon

Thanks for the blog, it is so thought provoking and full of learning for me personally, I am very grateful to you for creating it!

So…I guess you aren’t going to share your beliefs with us afterall. That’s ok, though I do find this bizarre as you talk about your quest for freedom here. Being afraid of sharing personal stuff and always feeling the need to put disclaimers in place is so far from being free in my opinion. I’ve told you this before, but for the sake of your work maybe forget you were ever a Lawyer and let go…

Much Love

Mark

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Simon Rose Reply:
March 28th, 2011 at 2:37 pm
G’day Mark! Great to hear from you again.

Yes am sharing my beliefs, slowly and with the disclaimer.

You make a really valid point about freedom. The real issue is “are we every REALLY truly free?” The answer is probably no. I mean there are lots of things – instincts, urges, ideas – that I am not free to act on because of the consequences. I am not free to shoot the person who steals my animals, or have an affair, or whatever. (Not saying I want to do any of these things, I’m just making a point about freedom.)

More specifically to my personal life, my wife the lovely Evette has a different spirituality to me. For example, she works with her guides or angels (not sure the best terminology). She does not agree with me about evolution of humanity – there’s a New Age school that says that animals may have evolved but humans were “created” or the DNA was interfered with in some positive way to create humanity. I am not free to say how strongly I disagree with that without mentioning that it’s my unique view, not Evette’s and not RPT’s.

For better or worse, what I say here does have an impact on RPT, that is another constraint on freedom. Just yesterday an RPT teacher said to me “my client yesterday seemed a little distressed by something you wrote on your blog.” Now this was the client’s stuff, and doesn’t stop me, but it reminds me that my words have an impact, not just on me, but on 25 other RPT teachers and their livelihoods.

I know full well the my beliefs about god will differ to those of my audience. I came up with my own ideas so they are going to be different. (I’m not that original though, apparently the Taoists beat me to it by a few thousand years or something). This is going to piss people off. People don’t want a spiritual teacher or healer to believe in LESS God than they do. Somehow psychologically people want their healers to be devout, even if they aren’t. Crazy but true.

Well I’m processing all of that and writing my thoughts and ideas bit by bit, with a disclaimer.

Please keep in touch, I’m rolling out my “god articles” this week. Will be great to get your input.

blessings
Simon

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